TCP Vegas makes QoS unnecessary?

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gnassar
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Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 13:38    Post subject: Reply with quote
I keep not wanting to necro either, but this post keeps coming up in my search results and it drives me nuts that the last post is both pedantic and wrong.

So nice that the one guy on here that knows the OSI model can correct all the "gurus" in re: what L3 vs L4 is. And yeah, every networking 101 textbook will tell you that a router operates on L3, and TCP is on L4, so clearly a TCP congestion protocol can't affect a router's operation. "Only when the router itself is an endpoint to a TCP connection," like when you log into it, he says.

Of course, *maybe* the gurus have gotten a little farther than networking 101...

Turns out, someone that'd gotten a little farther in their studies (even a very basic CCNA should know this) would realize that under the typical use case, the router is an endpoint to TCP connections *all the time*. After all, 99% of people using these routers are using it for NAT (or more correctly, NAT with IP masquerading -- or what the Cisco people would call PAT; shame on them for using proprietary terms but good on them for actually differentiating between the two technologies). We're abstracting a local subnet (e.g. 192.168.0.0./24) behind a single public IP address provided by an ISP. That is done by the router assigning that particular machine/port combination a unique, new outgoing port number at the router end -- hey, catch that, did ya? Ports don't exist as a construct until the TCP layer, in L4! So IP masquerading actually requires the router to decode the L4 packet, reconstruct the packet with the public IP in L3/IP and the newly assigned port in L4/TCP, and then establish a *new* TCP connection with the receiving server.

Yup -- turns out pretty much *all* of your non-handshake traffic coming out of your NATted router is affected by your TCP congestion control protocol. No shock to anyone who's actually played with the setting, as in the few years back of evidence on this thread. Remember, kids: science doesn't mean that when others observe something that doesn't conform to the science you tell them they're wrong. It means that when others observe something that doesn't conform, you validate that they saw what they saw (depending on the circumstances, multiple people seeing the same thing can often be pretty decent validation) and then you *look for a better answer*.

Aside 1: How exactly could anyone make the "routers only operate on L3, never above" argument when using router software with L7 QoS? Beyond me.

Aside 2: The OSI protocol model is a theoretical construct, which real systems are under no obligation to conform to -- and it just so happens that the TCP/IP specs define their own protocol model. OSI doesn't even directly apply here. That *should* have been something that was taught in your networking 101 class.
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hoot_spoot
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 110
Location: Earth.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 23:21    Post subject: Reply with quote
How do you get this output?

Masterman wrote:
TCP Vegas IS in the newest Eko build:

Linux version 2.6.24.111 (eko@dd-wrt) (gcc version 4.1.2) #535 Sun Jul 18 22:12:06 CEST 2010
CPU revision is: 00019740
Found a 8MB ST compatible serial flash
Determined physical RAM map:
memory: 02000000 @ 00000000 (usable)
On node 0 totalpages: 8192
Normal zone: 64 pages used for memmap
Normal zone: 0 pages reserved
Normal zone: 8128 pages, LIFO batch:0
Movable zone: 0 pages used for memmap
Built 1 zonelists in Zone order. Total pages: 8128
Kernel command line: console=ttyS0,115200 root=1f02 rootfstype=squashfs noinitrd
Primary instruction cache 32kB, physically tagged, 4-way, linesize 32 bytes.
Primary data cache 32kB, 4-way, linesize 32 bytes.
Synthesized TLB refill handler (20 instructions).
Synthesized TLB load handler fastpath (32 instructions).
Synthesized TLB store handler fastpath (32 instructions).
Synthesized TLB modify handler fastpath (31 instructions).
PID hash table entries: 128 (order: 7, 512 bytes)
CPU: BCM4716 rev 1 at 354 MHz
Using 177.000 MHz high precision timer.
console [ttyS0] enabled
Dentry cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Memory: 27344k/32768k available (3144k kernel code, 5424k reserved, 1479k data, 144k init, 0k highmem)
Calibrating delay loop... 176.53 BogoMIPS (lpj=882688)
Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
NET: Registered protocol family 16
Generic PHY: Registered new driver
PCI: Using membase 8000000
PCI: Disabled
PCI: Fixing up bus 0
PCI: Fixing up bus 1
NET: Registered protocol family 2
Time: MIPS clocksource has been installed.
IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP established hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
TCP bind hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 1024 bind 1024)
TCP reno registered
devfs: 2004-01-31 Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au)
devfs: boot_options: 0x1
squashfs: version 3.0 (2006/03/15) Phillip Lougher
io scheduler noop registered
io scheduler deadline registered (default)
HDLC line discipline: version $Revision: 4.8 $, maxframe=4096
N_HDLC line discipline registered.
Serial: 8250/16550 driver $Revision: 1.90 $ 4 ports, IRQ sharing disabled
serial8250: ttyS0 at MMIO 0x0 (irq = Cool is a 16550A
PPP generic driver version 2.4.2
PPP Deflate Compression module registered
PPP BSD Compression module registered
MPPE/MPPC encryption/compression module registered
NET: Registered protocol family 24
PPPoL2TP kernel driver, V1.0
tun: Universal TUN/TAP device driver, 1.6
tun: (C) 1999-2004 Max Krasnyansky <maxk@qualcomm.com>
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:02.0 to 64
bcm_robo_attach: Using external reset in gpio pin 10
bcm_robo_attach: devid read succesfully via mii: 0x3115
bcm_robo_attach: mii access to switch works
bcm_robo_attach: devid: 0x3115
eth0: Broadcom BCM47XX 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet Controller 5.10.56.27
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:01.0 to 64
pflash: found no supported devices
bootloader size: 262144
sflash: Filesystem type: squashfs, size=0x5b02bc
partition size = 5975040
Creating 5 MTD partitions on "sflash":
0x00000000-0x00040000 : "cfe"
0x00040000-0x007f0000 : "linux"
0x0018d400-0x00740000 : "rootfs"
mtd: partition "rootfs" doesn't start on an erase block boundary -- force read-only
0x007f0000-0x00800000 : "nvram"
0x00740000-0x007f0000 : "ddwrt"
Broadcom Watchdog Timer: 0.07 initialized.
u32 classifier
Actions configured
Netfilter messages via NETLINK v0.30.
nf_conntrack version 0.5.0 (1024 buckets, 4096 max)
ctnetlink v0.93: registering with nfnetlink.
IPv4 over IPv4 tunneling driver
GRE over IPv4 tunneling driver
ip_tables: (C) 2000-2006 Netfilter Core Team
ClusterIP Version 0.8 loaded successfully
TCP bic registered
TCP cubic registered
TCP westwood registered
TCP highspeed registered
TCP hybla registered
TCP htcp registered
TCP vegas registered
TCP scalable registered

NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
Welcome to PF_RING 3.2.1
(C) 2004-06 L.Deri <deri@ntop.org>
NET: Registered protocol family 27
PF_RING: bucket length 128 bytes
PF_RING: ring slots 4096
PF_RING: sample rate 1 [1=no sampling]
PF_RING: capture TX No [RX only]
PF_RING: transparent mode Yes
PF_RING initialized correctly.
PF_RING: registered /proc/net/pf_ring/
802.1Q VLAN Support v1.8 Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
All bugs added by David S. Miller <davem@redhat.com>
decode 1f02
VFS: Mounted root (squashfs filesystem) readonly.
Mounted devfs on /dev
Freeing unused kernel memory: 144k freed
br0: Dropping NETIF_F_UFO since no NETIF_F_HW_CSUM feature.
device br0 entered promiscuous mode
Algorithmics/MIPS FPU Emulator v1.5
device vlan1 entered promiscuous mode
device eth0 entered promiscuous mode
device eth1 entered promiscuous mode
br0: port 2(eth1) entering learning state
br0: port 1(vlan1) entering learning state
device br0 left promiscuous mode
device br0 entered promiscuous mode
device br0 left promiscuous mode
device br0 entered promiscuous mode
br0: topology change detected, propagating
br0: port 2(eth1) entering forwarding state
br0: topology change detected, propagating
br0: port 1(vlan1) entering forwarding state
device vlan2 entered promiscuous mode
device vlan2 left promiscuous mode
etherip: Ethernet over IPv4 tunneling driver
br0: port 2(eth1) entering disabled state
br0: port 1(vlan1) entering disabled state
device vlan1 left promiscuous mode
br0: port 1(vlan1) entering disabled state
device eth1 left promiscuous mode
br0: port 2(eth1) entering disabled state
br0: Dropping NETIF_F_UFO since no NETIF_F_HW_CSUM feature.
device br0 entered promiscuous mode
device vlan1 entered promiscuous mode
device eth1 entered promiscuous mode
device vlan2 entered promiscuous mode
br0: port 3(vlan2) entering learning state
br0: port 2(eth1) entering learning state
br0: port 1(vlan1) entering learning state
device br0 left promiscuous mode
device br0 entered promiscuous mode
device br0 left promiscuous mode
device br0 entered promiscuous mode
br0: topology change detected, propagating
br0: port 3(vlan2) entering forwarding state
br0: topology change detected, propagating
br0: port 2(eth1) entering forwarding state
br0: topology change detected, propagating
br0: port 1(vlan1) entering forwarding state
root@DD-WRT:~#

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jwh7
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Joined: 25 Oct 2013
Posts: 2670
Location: Indy

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 19:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
hoot_spoot wrote:
How do you get this output?
Don't necro double-necroed threads. Cool

That output is from the `dmesg` command in telnet/ssh/Commands, or from a serial output boot log.

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hoot_spoot
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 110
Location: Earth.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 20:23    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm updating the wiki, so it's relevant, no matter how old it may be to you. Razz
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