What's wrong, Brainslayer?

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nadim
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 23:10    Post subject: What's wrong, Brainslayer? Reply with quote
Don't like the taste of your own medicine?

I've been using DD-WRT since v2.3x, so I'm not an old timer by any means. But it seems I'm just learning about the dirty, rotten slime of the OSS world that it's become.

I found the following publicly proclaimed on the recompilation help page.

WARNING: Due to abuse by those re-branding DD-WRT and selling it, or pre-flashed routers with it on eBay, builds dated later than 08/04/2006 have some protections against re-branding the web UI.

Now, if I'm not mistaken, DD-WRT is taken from many OSS projects and contributed to by many developers. Then, correct me if I'm wrong here, it is SOLD. Now, I understand that there is a free version. I have it after all. But, I don't get full functionality unless I pay for it. Correct?

And the last time I checked, DD-WRT is Linux, isn't it? So is it wrong for me to put Linux on a PC to sell on eBay? NO!

Brainslayer. You are taking freely available OSS and SELLING it! There's nothing wrong with that. But, if you claim your project is OSS and hide parts of it from people, you contradict yourself, and have no right to complain about others re-branding your lies!

Congratulations to the DD-WRT dev team, and especially BS. You've lost another user. So, you just keep charging for your firmware and keep asking for donations on top of it.

I'll use an honest version, thank you.
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Sash
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 17508
Location: Hesse/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:50    Post subject: Reply with quote
some notes u should think of:

1. u will have to earn money for living.
2. the sources are published in svn (gpl). exept the non opensurce stuff. thats what all the vendors do (redheat, novell, sun...)
3. the payed broadcom/atheros version has features for commercial users, not for consumers (also the same like other vendors).
4. atheros hal is not free. it cost a lot of money to buy it form atheros-> all atheros wifi devices could be payable but ddwrt only sells the commercial sw, the consumer sw is still free!!

THINK BEFORE CLAIMING THINGS. dont be a stupid lemming.

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sketchman
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 14:48    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sash wrote:
some notes u should think of:

1. u will have to earn money for living.
2. the sources are published in svn (gpl). exept the non opensurce stuff. thats what all the vendors do (redheat, novell, sun...)
3. the payed broadcom/atheros version has features for commercial users, not for consumers (also the same like other vendors).
4. atheros hal is not free. it cost a lot of money to buy it form atheros-> all atheros wifi devices could be payable but ddwrt only sells the commercial sw, the consumer sw is still free!!

THINK BEFORE CLAIMING THINGS. dont be a stupid lemming.


1. I have a job for that. I don't depend on OSS projects that I help with for my income.
2. So, the web ui isn't Open Source? Really? Then my point is made clearer. Thank you for that.
3. Commercial users? So I couldn't possibly have a use for Per User Bandwith Control in my home wrt54gl, right? Do you have kids?
4. Again, there's no need to charge. If there's a need for a specific amount of money for something the users really want, tell the users. If there's enough need for it, donations will come.

These are not wild claims. These are honest observations that others and myself have made. Google dd-wrt alternatives, and you'll see it for yourself.
Sash
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 17508
Location: Hesse/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 16:11    Post subject: Reply with quote
sketchman wrote:
Sash wrote:
some notes u should think of:

1. u will have to earn money for living.
2. the sources are published in svn (gpl). exept the non opensurce stuff. thats what all the vendors do (redheat, novell, sun...)
3. the payed broadcom/atheros version has features for commercial users, not for consumers (also the same like other vendors).
4. atheros hal is not free. it cost a lot of money to buy it form atheros-> all atheros wifi devices could be payable but ddwrt only sells the commercial sw, the consumer sw is still free!!

THINK BEFORE CLAIMING THINGS. dont be a stupid lemming.


1. I have a job for that. I don't depend on OSS projects that I help with for my income.
2. So, the web ui isn't Open Source? Really? Then my point is made clearer. Thank you for that.
3. Commercial users? So I couldn't possibly have a use for Per User Bandwith Control in my home wrt54gl, right? Do you have kids?
4. Again, there's no need to charge. If there's a need for a specific amount of money for something the users really want, tell the users. If there's enough need for it, donations will come.

These are not wild claims. These are honest observations that others and myself have made. Google dd-wrt alternatives, and you'll see it for yourself.


but u will not find an alternative who will serve consumer and professional customers with one stable fw...

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Jaredwhamilton
DD-WRT User


Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
Location: Oil City, PA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:29    Post subject: Reply with quote
why do we get these annoying occasional haters in the forum?

You can download the firmware for free.

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DDSCentral
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 17:26    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've just registered to say this:
We're not haters. In fact I've just installed this firmware on my WRT150N and it's working ok, faster than factory firmware and I hope it will continue to work stable and fast. (and I will not have to reboot my router twice a day to restore internet access)
But I hate to see someone selling open-source project and making money out of others hard work.
This is no longer a true open source project. True open source projects don't sell commercial versions of their products. (At least I've used many open source programs and I have never seen a open source project with a commercial version).
I write programs myself (although I'm not a pro developer) and I would never contribute to "open source" project which sells commercial versions of their products.
BTW, your commercial firmwares are available for download in all major BitTorrent sites (for free as it should be).
rjr162
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 21:56    Post subject: OSS Nazis? Reply with quote
There are quite a few companies who sell commercial versions of OSS. CrossOver is a for-cost version of Wine. In fact, the makers of CrossOver and the makers of Wine work closely with each other, passing code and help back and forth, but none-the-less CrossOver is a "for a fee" OSS package. OpenOffice is another good example. It's based off of StarOffice from Sun. StarOffice has a fee attached, where as OpenOffice is for free. OSS doesn't have to be completely free of proprietary code. A great example of this is TomTom and Garmin GPS units, which run linux (Source is posted on their website per GPL) but the UI and all that you can't obtain.

The web front to dd-wrt is designed by the dd-wrt folks, who own the copyright to said interface. The back-end system is open, linux based, etc, etc and you can obtain the source to all of this. If they don't want to you be able to easily change the name on the web-front, who cares? It's their code, and they have the right to do that. Can you change it? Sure, but it's going to be difficult. Legal? Well that's if the dd-wrt guys say it's ok, then yes, otherwise it's not.

Do you want to change the source to the main linux based section? That's completely legal per GPL, and if you read the forum you'll see many people change things and re-compile.

Heck, look at Lindows/Linspire. You had to purchase that to get a copy for various reasons, but you can obtain the source to the code as well if you wanted to compile it yourself.

As long as you give credit to the people who actually wrote the code, per the GPL instructions, and give any changes you make to the GPL'ed code (not in-house written from scratch stuff such as the webfront), then you're perfectly well within the GPL. Selling it is absolutely fine as well, as long as you follow all of the above too.

Edit> as to the quote "WARNING: Due to abuse by those re-branding DD-WRT and selling it, or pre-flashed routers with it on eBay, builds dated later than 08/04/2006 have some protections against re-branding the web UI.", there's no reason someone can't re-use the code on a router and sell it on ebay. As I said above, Garmin, TomTom, etc do this. You just have to make sure you're using the GPL'ed code only.
jmh9072
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:17    Post subject: Reply with quote
The WebUI IS GPL. You can get it off of svn and modify it to your liking. The sources are in /src/router/kromo. And don't believe the lies about not being able to compile from source. IT IS POSSIBLE. I HAVE DONE IT.

BrainSlayer has stated many times that the consumer version of the firmware will always be free. While you may not agree with his decision to protect the WebUI from being changed using the Firmware Mod Kit (and I don't), it is fully GPL-compliant, and you can rebrand it all you want by compiling the sources. (Side note: Yes, BS did try to copyright the WebUI at one point, but realized that it was really a modification of GPL code and seceded that point).

Additionally, the only parts of this project that aren't GPL are two of the three features of the special version (which is what I assume you mean when you say "full functionality"): Per User Bandwith Control and Zero IP Hotspot (PPPOE-Relay is GPL and is in the svn -- if you don't want to pay for it, compilie it in yourself, but really: how many people do you know that need these features? Also, sputnik, Wifidog, and Chillispot are avaliable in the consumer builds if you want to create a hotspot), and the code responsible for x86 and commercial board activation. If you have one of these and would like to use them for non-commercial purposes, you can either:

1. Ask BS for an activation code, explaining your situation, and he will provide you with one.

or

2. Modify the source so that activation is not required. (Actually, this is an option for commercial use as well)

In fact, you're lucky that option number 2 is even possible. BS could charge you before you are allowed to download the binaries. If that was the case, he wouldn't have to provide you with the x86 branch's sources until you have been given access to the binaries.

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