Netgear WNDR3300 router - How to add external. ant?

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KeithB
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 489

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 13:19    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll confirm what ddwrtliukuohao posted regarding 5GHz signal coverage. I have two WNDR3300 routers in a WDS wireless bridge configuration. Between them is a hallway, so there are two interior sheet rock walls and another fifteen feet of bedroom space. The 5GHz radios connect at this distance, but with a very low signal level. If you're not very near or in the same physical room with this WNDR3300 router, you should not expect to achieve reliable 5 GHz connections.

I've been following this thread, because twinmos' message is the first time I've heard it described that RF test connectors are installed on a retail router board. Though these appear EXTREMELY similar to Hirose U.FL antenna connections, they are different. Compare them side by side to another router, and you can see it. There is no center connection to mate directly with a U.FL pigtail cable.

You'll have to remove and replace these connectors OR remove them completely and solder the bare end of the pigtail antenna cable directly to the printed circuit board. Sad

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ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:07    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi KeithB,

Thanks for your advice and comment.

I am glad that someone showed the interest in replying
my post. Laughing Laughing Laughing

KeithB, to improve your signal weakness, there are
2 options:

1) It think it best to mount your WNDR3300 high and
see whether you get a line of sight arrangement. If
you get line of sight, then it be great Laughing the
signal will have direct path between the 2 routers.
This means that there is no signal lost in between
since it does not go through the obstacles.

2) If line of sight is not possible. Have you tried
to install an external antennae on both WNDR3300
routers to improve the range and coverage.
The best is to get directional antenna.

My guess is the internal PCB antennae built
into the router is rather is weak in terms
of signal gain. I have removed all my internal
antennae on my Linksys WRT310 & WRT160N & WRT150N
routers and replaced it with a high gain antennae
to give me more coverage and range where the
locations have many obstacles.

This lead me to my question about the Hirose RF
connectors(Probably, it is not Hirose)
How to remove those connectors or to be
more specific, how to desolder them, and solder the
connection point with a bare pigtail.

It will be most appreciated................
if you can show me. Surprised Surprised, as I have
no experience is removing Hirose connector. Worse
still, I don't know which part of the connector is
grounding point, and the next question is if the
Hirose RF connectors are removed, does it mean that
the internal PCB antennae will be disconnected?? Confused

Then, how about the remaining 3 PCB antennae which
does not have 3 Hirose RF connectors. The WNDR3300
router has got in total 8 internal antennae, so for
if you look closely on the picture, there is only
5 Hirose RF connectors.

Most appreciate if someone out there in the forum
who knows about the circuit diagram can give some advice Wink

_____________________________________________________
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twinmos
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 17:38    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,
I managed to install external antennas on WNDR3300. It is simpler than I expected. I had to remove only 2 of Hirose RF Switches and replace them with U.FL connectors. For 3 other antennas there are solder pads for connector where you need to solder U.FL connector and reinstall small element to route signal to newly installed connector instead of RF Switch and integrated antennas. Only problem with soldering that some components are SMALL. I had to use magnifying glass to see them.

Now about "Antennas" without connectors - I would not call them antennas since there is no any connection to active RF elements of router. I think this is passive elements/resonators in additions to real active 5 antennas.

Thanks,
PS: If you want more details I have some pictures
ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Twinmos,

Good to hear from you!!!!!!

Thanks for coming back to me about how to install
ext. antenna on the WNDR3300 router.
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I thought this topic is long gone for good.

Well, fortunately you are able to reply my post.

Well, first of all, I must say congratulation on your
successful attempt of installing ext. antenna.
Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised

From your description on your last reply, I found it
a bit hard to follow on. Since I have No knowledge
about RF switches. Would you able to post a
picture on what you did in the modification??????

Razz Razz Razz

PS:
Is it possible to solder a bare pigtail on the PCB,
if solder pads are found? Or is there any solder
pads????



Thank you.
twinmos
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 16:47    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,
Here it is.

To remove RF switch I heat up side an push until it start moving. Then heat up other side, repeat few times. I didn't care about removed socked so I just broke it finally.



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ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:25    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey Twinmos,

Great stuff!!!! Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised

I realized that the 2 routing elements has been
desoldered. Good idea!!!!

Also you resoldered again in 90 degrees position, so
that the signal will not go through the 2 RF
switches.

Instead, it will go through a different path which
will come in contact with newly soldered 2 U.FL RF
connectors.

What is the routing element anyway???
Is it a capacitor??? It looks like it......


What about the radio signal, it the router working
fine now that a whole new sets of antennae being
installed? Wink

I also noticed that you managed to find 3 DUAL BAND
omni antennae installed on the router.

Can these DUAL band antennae be bought from the
internet?


Thanks for you help so far. Smile
twinmos
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 13:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi ddwrtliukuohao,

Actually 3 routing elements, picture shows only dual band radio and we have single band radio also with same modification.
Routing elements seems to be kind of resistor with very low resistance - below 1 ohm, most probably just a short. So you can replace it with tiny piece of wire or even solder if it happens to lose it Very Happy(It almost happens with me Very Happy )
About dual band antennas and connectors - I bought it from Digikey. (digikey.ca).
Dual band Antenna - Part number 553-1313-ND
U.FL connector - Part number H9161-ND

My subjective feeling is signal got better. I can connect from anywhere in my home and transfer speed is better also.

Thanks
ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:05    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Twinmos,

Great!!!!, thank you for letting me know the source of
buying the dual band antenna at www.digi-key.com.

From your last reply, I actually discovered that
another way to soldering my ext. antenna.

I found that you don't have to buy 5 units of U.FL
connectors/sockets to be soldered on the PCB.

You can actually, solder a bare pigtail
(with U.FL connector cut off) and just solder the bare
end onto the PCB showed on the picture attached.

The grounding points are the grounding of the PCB.
I checked it using my digital multimeter
Laughing

Ok, the routing element seems to be a small tiny
capacitor. It has to be a capacitor since the PCB
has got the letter "Cxxx" printed/labelled. If it is
a resistor, there should be "Rxxx" but if you look
closely the prefix letter is "C" rather than "R"

I measure the DC resistance across the routing
element, but there is no reading on my multimeter,
meaning open circuit for DC current.
Laughing


At the moment, I am not sure whether to remove the
routing elements or not. Because, removing it means
I have to solder a very thin wire and not sure
whether it deteriorates the signal. Sad

Otherwise, keeping the routing element means I have
use a magnifying glass to relocate the element 90
degrees which is going to be a tough job. Sad

Thanks for giving our feedback to far. Smile



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jimblough
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:40    Post subject: Reply with quote
does anyone know which of the 3 antennas on the BGN interface, and which of the two antennas on the BG interface are the 'primary' antennas?

i want to run the wifi signals over coax, so i want to hook only the primary antenna up and disconnect the other two.

also the best way to move these very small capacitors is to use two soldering irons, one in each hand, and sort of like using chopsticks, pick up the capacitor and move it to its new pads.
ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi jimblough,

Thank you for replying my post for suggesting a good
way to remove those Routing Elements/Capacitors.
I guess I will need a helper to hold the other
soldering iron for me.

Regarding your question about the 3 antennae, it can
only run on N mode at either 2.4GHz or 5GHz frequency.

If want G or B mode, you need to use the other pair of
antennae which is located on your right side of the PCB.

See the pic. attachment below. READ THE LIGHT BLUE LABELS

Thanks
Surprised



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jimblough
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:54    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, i understand the group of 3 antennas is the 5Ghz/2.4GHz N/A only radio, and the group of 2 antennas is the BG radio.

but usually there is a primary antenna, which is the one you should hook up if you are going to put only one external antenna. any idea which is the primary antenna for either interface?


ddwrtliukuohao wrote:
Hi jimblough,

Thank you for replying my post for suggesting a good
way to remove those Routing Elements/Capacitors.
I guess I will need a helper to hold the other
soldering iron for me.

Regarding your question about the 3 antennae, it can
only run on N mode at either 2.4GHz or 5GHz frequency.

If want G or B mode, you need to use the other pair of
antennae which is located on your right side of the PCB.

See the pic. attachment below. READ THE LIGHT BLUE LABELS

Thanks
Surprised
ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:02    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi jimblough,

You are right, there should be a primary antenna
in the B/G setup. But unfortunately, that is all I know
about it. I can't tell which one is the primary one.

I think best place to get your answer is to register
Netgear forum and see whether there is anyone there to
help you. Smile

PS: If you look closely, at B/G RF switch nearest to
the routing element label: "C388", that is the RF
switch closest to the right side of the PCB could be
the primary antenna,
I cannot confirm it.


Thanks.
twinmos
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:43    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,

I have seen some explanations that from 3(N) or 2(BG) antennas 1 antenna is receiving only and all others are for receiving and transmitting (I think it is what you call as "primary" Smile ). As was described above antennas with additional pads for sockets are active (Transmit/receive) (WDNR3300. see posts above). Others are receive only. I do not know if we need to make receive only antennas external, but I made. Smile
Other routers seems to work with 2 antennas for N or one for G without problem.

My 1 cent Very Happy
tector
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 18:25    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello guys,

can someone please check if this router brings full 300mbit on 5ghz with dd-wrt. incl. the wideband mode.

THX
ddwrtliukuohao
DD-WRT User


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 14:24    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi tector,

Because this is my post. I think it is my duty to
answer your question even though I have done nothing
on my Netgear router.

To be very frank, I have not yet loaded dd-wrt into
my Netgear WNDR3300 router. I am too busy on testing
other Linksys routers which I am working on a project.
This project involves getting WDS to work stably.

So, I guess Twinmos might able to help you out.
Or someone out there in the forum is free enough to
answer you question.

Guys can you answer tector's question? I
am sure one of you guys has already loaded dd-wrt
in a Netgear WNDR3300 router, right?

Smile
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