Most powerful Wireless N 2.4GHz router with antenna plugs

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BrentNewland
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 21:32    Post subject: Most powerful Wireless N 2.4GHz router with antenna plugs Reply with quote
The company I'm working for is trying to set up a wireless range package - we have a lot of rural clients who have problems getting wireless signals where they need to be.

We've already gone through and found the best cantenna design (and are ordering the parts, and will test several variations next week) but I'm looking for a high quality DD-WRT compatible router.

I'm trying to find the most powerful (transmit and receive antenna power, as well as RAM/CPU) router that has either external antenna plugs or internal plugs that I can connect an adapter to (such as http://www.virtualvillage.com/mini-pci-to-rp-sma-pigtail-wi-fi-006411-008.html). Since the cantenna is only designed for ~2.4 GHz, I'm not worried about 5GHz operations. Also, having (at least) one antenna that does both transmit and receive would be ideal, since having multiple cantennas means more problems. Also, $100 or less would be good.

Any suggestions? I'm looking at the WRT160NL (400MHz, 32MB RAM, has two external antennas that are detachable and supports DD-WRT) which is available for about $90. The WNDR3700 may also work (not sure if one of the antennas supports both tx/rx, but it does have internal mini-pci style connectors) however it's $140.
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buddee
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 22:52    Post subject: Reply with quote
The WRT160NL is a sweet unit, i have one myself, but it is Atheros chipset, so in dd-wrt world, still pretty beta, another one you may consider, The Asus RT-N16, its a broadcom chipset, and has external antennas, not sure if 3rd party antennas will work with it though, should be something to research.

Also to let you know, i have tried the Cantenna, I was not that impressed, i figured atleast a 1/4 mile with clear line of sight, man was i wrong, it did give boost, but little. The best results i have had is with a Biquad Antenna, its boost was exceptional. I have not tried it with mounting to an old satellite dish, which is supposed to boost you up to 35dBi. Maybe i was doing something wrong with the cantenna, but i think i made it dead on for what the site called. The site itself had a calculator for cuts and everything, but then again i have read that it is best to hook up a signal amplifier with the cantenna, who knows. All of this stuff can be found on ebay for very cheap, my biquad DIY kit was only $7.

One last thing, (i know i know) but another thing to consider, is trying high mW wireless adapters to go along with it, on my long range stuff i been using generic realtek 8191's for N and i have now ordered an alfa wireless G adapter that is supposed to rock as well, these things will all play roles on distance routes.

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BrentNewland
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
Our plan is to use two high powered routers with cantennas to set up a long range wireless bridge, with either secondary routers for rebroadcasting or using extra antennas on the router for indoors. All very custom, so I'm thinking of building custom enclosures for the routers and installing heatsinks and fans so we can boost the antenna power (if needed) and provide long term reliability.

Do you remember which site you got directions from? I'm using one at bloggedopinions.blogspot.com from November 2005, which is based on one from turnpoint.net. Our plan is to get a couple of different cans to try (I just ordered six sets of antenna hardware), get some base readings with just a router and usb adapter (that has its own external antenna). Then we'll put cantennas on both, use inssider to get signal strengths, and repeat until we find which cans work best and what the max distance is.
buddee
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:51    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrentNewland wrote:

Do you remember which site you got directions from? I'm using one at bloggedopinions.blogspot.com from November 2005, which is based on one from turnpoint.net. Our plan is to get a couple of different cans to try (I just ordered six sets of antenna hardware), get some base readings with just a router and usb adapter (that has its own external antenna). Then we'll put cantennas on both, use inssider to get signal strengths, and repeat until we find which cans work best and what the max distance is.


Yea same link.. I was doing this so i could shoot a signal to one of my friends down some houses from me, about 2 blocks away.

http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html

I used that exact guide to build 2 of them for my linksys WRT54G v4, like i said though, my exp with them was pretty lackluster, it did give a boost, but not like i had hoped for...

I ended up building a couple of biquad antennas instead, much better than cantenna results. I setup a repeater bridge router running dd-wrt at his house with the same biquad antennas, and it works with no problems. He tells me its fast all the time, which is mainly what i worried about because of interference.

http://www.engadget.com/2005/11/15/how-to-build-a-wifi-biquad-dish-antenna/

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BrentNewland
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are a lot of variables though that I haven't been able to find information online about. For example, do different types of metal produce different results? Some cans are smooth, some have ridges, does that effect the signal? Why does the element need to be 1.21 inches into the can, wouldn't having it centered vertically make a better signal? Does the core material that goes inside the can make a difference (e.g. thickness and composition of wire)?

I plan to test as many variables as I can and take signal levels and bandwidth measurements at every step. Maybe I can convince the airport or race track to let us test there, that way we have a long distance combined with a straight line for aiming.

You also see lots of negativw reviews on cantennas with people using just one. Well, it works kind of like a megaphone, if I have one and you can hear me at the edge of its range, I cant hear you unless you have one too.
buddee
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:13    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrentNewland wrote:

You also see lots of negativw reviews on cantennas with people using just one. Well, it works kind of like a megaphone, if I have one and you can hear me at the edge of its range, I cant hear you unless you have one too.


Yes that is why like i said, i built 2 of them for my router and 2 of them for my friend, but knock yourself out, you may end up with better results than i did, the biquad worked best for me in the end.

Also for N router you have no choice but to use 2, because of MIMO, it'll need a minimum of 2 cantennas.

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s-g-r
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:06    Post subject: Re: Most powerful Wireless N 2.4GHz router with antenna plug Reply with quote
BrentNewland wrote:
The company I'm working for ...


Are you crazy? You don't need the most powerful router. You need good antennas.

There are so many cheap & good antennas out there.
Don't waste your time with reinvent the wheel.

Choose one, test with equipment you already have and if all else fails get a Ubiquiti Rocket M2 or M5.

http://www.l-com.com/familylist.aspx?id=2146
http://advatus.com/group/2858,Antennas_2_4GHz
http://ubnt.com/rocketm
BrentNewland
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 15:02    Post subject: Re: Most powerful Wireless N 2.4GHz router with antenna plug Reply with quote
s-g-r wrote:
BrentNewland wrote:
The company I'm working for ...


Are you crazy? You don't need the most powerful router. You need good antennas.

There are so many cheap & good antennas out there.
Don't waste your time with reinvent the wheel.

Choose one, test with equipment you already have and if all else fails get a Ubiquiti Rocket M2 or M5.

http://www.l-com.com/familylist.aspx?id=2146
http://advatus.com/group/2858,Antennas_2_4GHz
http://ubnt.com/rocketm


I didst ask for an antenna. I have that covered. Stick to the topic please
s-g-r
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 15:23    Post subject: Reply with quote
What do you mean with "most powerful" router?

CPU, RAM, dBm or connectivity?

Quote:
Our plan is to use two high powered routers with cantennas to set up a long range wireless bridge


"long range" & cantenna is an antagonism.

How long is this range? LOS or NLOS?
BrentNewland
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Joined: 13 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 0:00    Post subject: Reply with quote
s-g-r wrote:
What do you mean with "most powerful" router?

CPU, RAM, dBm or connectivity?

BrentNewland wrote:
I'm trying to find the most powerful (transmit and receive antenna power, as well as RAM/CPU) router



Quote:
Our plan is to use two high powered routers with cantennas to set up a long range wireless bridge


"long range" & cantenna is an oxymoron.

How long is this range? LOS or NLOS?[/quote]

Line of sight. It's not for a specific distance, it's for max distance.
buddee
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Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 7401
Location: Little Rock

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:00    Post subject: Reply with quote
In your setup, you will need no less than 2 to 3 cantennas for each router, because of N and MIMO, i would still suggest the RT-N16 for this, because it already has external antennas, or the WRT160NL (only 2 cans would be needed on this unit) with many of the other routers, you would have to bring the in, out. For external connecting purposes.

Also you are saying about custom enclosures, consumer N units already run pretty hot. So a heatsink and fan is not a bad idea.

If you do test this, please post back results.

Edit: actually this has inspired me to try this using my RT-N16 and wrt160nl, not with the cantennas, i only have to make another biquad to try this on my RT-n16, i actually do have an old sat tv dish here as well that i could attach it to, hmmm

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Last edited by buddee on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:54; edited 1 time in total
nn5i
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:38    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrentNewland wrote:
Well, it works kind of like a megaphone, if I have one and you can hear me at the edge of its range, I cant hear you unless you have one too.

No, it does not work like a megaphone, unless you listen through the megaphone as well as talk through it. If you are using the same antenna for receiving and transmitting, you get the same gain in both directions, not just in one direction.

The cantenna is a rather crude design in any case; don't expect much from it. For real results, put a simple antenna at the focus of a big dish. For example, you can use a router with one internal antenna and put the whole thing at the focus of a paraboloid and get phenomenal gain both on transmit and on receive. If it's outside, put it in a Tupperware box with holes cut for the power and ethernet, and be sure you know where the internal antenna is, so you can place the antenna at the focus. It will work best if the same antenna is used for both receive and transmit, which is the case with many routers. With a dish that's smooth enough, accurately enough formed, and big enough, 75mw should work easily from, say, the north rim of Grand Canyon to the south rim.

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LeroyGreem
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:00    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am using Linksys router. for 3 years already and somehow I haven't encountered any problem with it. I have atleast 10 computers connected to it (server, wired connection, and wireless connection, mobile) and they are all working fine with the router.









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BrentNewland
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 17:48    Post subject: Reply with quote
nn5i wrote:
BrentNewland wrote:
Well, it works kind of like a megaphone, if I have one and you can hear me at the edge of its range, I cant hear you unless you have one too.

No, it does not work like a megaphone, unless you listen through the megaphone as well as talk through it. If you are using the same antenna for receiving and transmitting, you get the same gain in both directions, not just in one direction.


You don't get the same gain in both directions because of the restricted FOV on the can. Optimally you would want a cantenna for transmitting (which will keep the signal strong and tight), and a large antenna or reflector of some sort for receiving (to provide the largest surface area to catch incoming signals).
BrentNewland
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Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 19:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just an update, we finally got some cans and the other parts needed to assemble them. We haven't tried a bunch of different cans yet, or done accurate distance and signal measurements, but from our preliminary tests:

3/4 Mile (according to vehicle odometer) with one can on laptop pointing at wireless router (standard WRT54GS with factory antennas): -70, 3 bars

1 Mile with cantennas on router and laptop (informal test by boss): Better than 3 bars



I'm working on getting additional can types. I believe we used a soup can measuring 3 1/4" in diameter and 5 3/4" in height.


So, changing the topic slightly, what is the most powerful Wireless G router (transmit power and CPU/RAM) that has at least two antennas that both transmit and receive and are detachable/replaceable?
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