Channel 14 illegal?

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h4x0r
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Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Coral Springs, FL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 20:46    Post subject: Channel 14 illegal? Reply with quote
Can I be busted for using Channel 14? Iv'e heard that it is only for 802.11b not g, but it works fine on g. Will an FCC agent come banging in if I use this channel?
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barryware
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Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 12843
Location: Behind The Reset Button

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 20:48    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes.. You are breaking the law. There are trucks that drive up & down the streets with their directional monitoring equipment looking for guys like you..

You WILL go to jail for a long long time.

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h4x0r
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Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Coral Springs, FL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 20:52    Post subject: Reply with quote
barryware wrote:
Yes.. You are breaking the law. There are trucks that drive up & down the streets with their directional monitoring equipment looking for guys like you..

You WILL go to jail for a long long time.

Are u serious? Bastards, it's my house and the signal isn't even strong enough to interfere with the neighbors' wi-fi and can only picked up if someone goes scanning for it with fancy antennas. Most devices wont even show it in the list of wireless networks, only WUSB54G v4 picks it up, all others fail to detect it! Those ******* at the FCC!!!
SilverstarX
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 21:02    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now it's going to be funny... Sorry for this spam post, but I couldn't resist. :D

Popcorn for all..!


Seriously: Are they as worse as the GEZ? Very Happy
barryware
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 21:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
h4x0r wrote:
Are u serious? Bastards, it's my house and the signal isn't even strong enough to interfere with the neighbors' wi-fi and can only picked up if someone goes scanning for it with fancy antennas. Most devices wont even show it in the list of wireless networks, only WUSB54G v4 picks it up, all others fail to detect it! Those ******* at the FCC!!!


No.. I am not serious.. I'd have to pull out the list but US is channels 1 ~ 11 for both B & G, Europe gets 1 ~ 13, and there are a couple of countries that get all 14. (I think..) It's documented somewhere.

I'd love to use the upper channels but I have not been able to get any wireless devices to be able to select those channels. It's the drivers for the wireless devices do not allow it. Maybe some reg entries also but for sure the drivers.

I would'nt worry too much about it. Just leave your lights on low and for goodness sakes, act normal when they knock on the door. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

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socal87
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 943
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 0:23    Post subject: Reply with quote
In all seriousness, the only case in which the FCC would come after you would be if you were broadcasting without a license on a frequency you weren't licensed to use, at a power above that what the license specifies. For instance, most CB radios are about 5-10 watts, sometimes but rarely 20. I'm not sure if you need a license to use CB, but there is a limit to the power you can be pushing out. I heard of a guy back where I used to live (Central Oregon) who had a CB set pushing out about 250 watts...it would bleed four channels in each direction. He got fined big time and his equipment confiscated.

As for WiFi...I think it's kind of a gray area, considering WiFi frequencies are unlicensed...but still, there is a limit to how much power you can be pushing, because if your signal area is too great, you cause interference for others, one of the reasons why the FCC exists. I think it would be a bigger deal if you were to, say, setup a high power wireless link on a frequency you weren't authorized to use. But as for WiFi...each consumer device is sold with the understanding that it will be used for home or small office use, with a small coverage area. They don't care what channel you use as long as you aren't intentionally causing interference for others. Yes, 802.11 in the US only specifies 11 channels, while Europe is 13 and Japan is 14. If your hardware supports it, go for it, nobody is going to care. Besides, it's quite likely you'll find better speeds (or at least less interference) on 14 since the majority of US users can't use that channel.

If you're really wondering about what the FCC mandates, check their site (fcc.gov of course), especially here: FCC Rules and Regulations

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m00nman
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 395
Location: AB, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:41    Post subject: Reply with quote
Somehow I was only able to connect at speed of 11Mbit/s on channel 14 which is the maximum speed for Wireless-B. Though it shows 54Mbit/s on the PC, the router ALWAYS shows 11Mbit/s. So maybe this channel really is limited to wireless-b, at least in the firmware to maybe comply with some regulations.
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Xymox
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Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Phoenix, Az

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:46    Post subject: Reply with quote
I use the 5Ghz band..

I am using a Ubiquity Bullet M5

Using the beta software one of the country choices is "Compliance test"..

That gives you a stunning range of frequencies that work. All pretty much illegal.. At the extremes output is down 15% in power, which is no big deal really.

4.920Ghz as the lowest freq @ 20Mhz
6.105Ghz as the highest freq @ 20 Mhz

4.940 @ 40Mhz
6.080 @ 40Mhz

http://www.ubnt.com/products/bulletm.php

I can use one of their cards with my laptop setup in the same way with beta software and "compliance test" to connect to the access point.

http://www.ubnt.com/products/srx.php

Gotta have antennas that can do stuff that far outta band tho of course.

So its possible to operate a 40Mhz channel at 6.080Ghz. Needless to say, no normal wifi gear will be able to see this.. Use a 26db sector antenna and you could hit effective radiated powers of tens of watts and have miles of coverage.

Is this illegal ? Absolutely.

Advantages ? No interference from other wifi rigs. Obscurity - you need special hardware to even see my wifi network.

Disadvantages. Illegal. Slightly decreased power output from my 18db Omni antenna. Possible serious interference in the future from a licensed operator on that frequency.

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bjoeg
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Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 418

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
m00nman wrote:
Somehow I was only able to connect at speed of 11Mbit/s on channel 14 which is the maximum speed for Wireless-B. Though it shows 54Mbit/s on the PC, the router ALWAYS shows 11Mbit/s. So maybe this channel really is limited to wireless-b, at least in the firmware to maybe comply with some regulations.


Channel 14 is only available for Japan and is only allowed to run 802.11b.

This could be found with Google easily.
DoesItMatter
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Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 1373
Location: Pacific North West, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:33    Post subject: Reply with quote
On my Wireless-G and Wireless-N client devices I have, they're all RaLink based,
I've been able to go into device manager and choose different channel setups.

What's cool about that in the US is that if you're too congested, you can choose
the higher ranges 12-14 and have some clear space ;)

I can have them use 1-11, 1-13, or 1-14.

I think it depends on the drivers and how loose the manufacturers are programming them.

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m00nman
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 395
Location: AB, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:11    Post subject: Reply with quote
It does depend on drivers. For me I had to go into the registry and add one more string parameter to Location JP - Japan. Then in the advanced settings i could choose Japan which enabled all 14 channels. But as i said channel 14 is B-only unfortunately.
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Nateo200
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 0:11    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know necro post but I would like to share some pretty cool observations ive made with regard to the high bands of the 2.4Ghz spectrum...
I have a motorola droid with a wifi tethering app, since it's hacked I can use all 14 bands. My iPad barely recognizes channel 14 and the signal is very weak. I'm not sure if I'm getting interference from maybe sprint testing out wimax in my area or if the chipset is just to weak to pick it up. Pretty cool stuff, my iPad has 5.8ghz support to so if I can get my hands on a wireless a router I'll probably test some things out.

EDIT actually would anyone know what type of allocations the FCC has set up in those upper bands in the US? wimax comes to mind but I feel like that's past 2500.
bkcallahan
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 07 Jul 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 16:10    Post subject: Reply with quote
socal87 wrote:
In all seriousness, the only case in which the FCC would come after you would be if you were broadcasting without a license on a frequency you weren't licensed to use, at a power above that what the license specifies. For instance, most CB radios are about 5-10 watts, sometimes but rarely 20.


I'm a licensed amateur radio operator (K0EES). CB is limited 4w PEP (Peak envelope power); for AM (Standard) this is an ERP (Effective Radiated Power) of 4w; for SSB (Single-side band), 12w ERP is allowed (It's still a 4W signal, really the carrier, and both sidebands use 4W each in a AM signal. Since one sideband and the carrier is eliminated (Waste of power!), you can put 12W into the sideband xmit. This is of course, a simplified version.

As to the OP, they are a violation to use channels 12,13,14 in the USA. Chances of getting cuaght and/or prosecuted are probably about zero (but not non-zero).
WaBill
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Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 19:04    Post subject: freqs Reply with quote
in the US, the 4.9Ghz bands are reserved for public services, i.e. D.O.T, emergency services etc. If you are caught broadcasting on that band you will be caught! (they have a direct line to the FCC). In Austrailia the FM band is reserved for public services (or so I've been told, maybe I'm thinking of New Zealand) anyway I've been told you can get in trouble broadcasting on FM in one of those countries.
Make me feel kinda creeped out that though our radios can get channels 12-14 (2.4ghz),, and we can't broadcast on them? With location services nowadays, it wouldn't take long to triangulate your position.
bkcallahan
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Joined: 07 Jul 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 19:12    Post subject: Re: freqs Reply with quote
WaBill wrote:
With location services nowadays, it wouldn't take long to triangulate your position.


No, not at all. It's not the limiting factor by any means. It's the man-power hours you need to do that, and that's presuming someone complained. I'd like to see the FCC's cost-analysis on catching such people. It can't really be automated very well, as the xmit distance is far, far too small to do so effectively -- you need to get people in vans with expensive equipment to do it.
Think of it a bit like speeding. If everyone's doing 70 in a 55, chances are no one is getting pulled over. Yes, you're breaking the law but in that situation, there is very little chance of getting caught. This is not advising someone to do it, it is simply my analysis of what priority it is (or in this case, probably isn't) for the FCC.
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