Joined: 25 Dec 2010 Posts: 295 Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:50 Post subject: Netgear R8000
"The new Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Tri-Band WiFi Router (R8000) is the first tri-band WiFi router available for purchase incorporating the powerful new Broadcom 5G WiFi XStream platform. With six high-performance antennas and three network bands, one 2.4GHz and two 5GHz, the Nighthawk X6 delivers the industry's fastest combined WiFi speed, up to 3.2 Gbps (1300+1300+600 Mbps). It balances the network load to ensure the best WiFi performance for each device and deliver the maximum wireless range available today", says NETGEAR.
The company further explains, "powered by a 1GHz dual core processor with three additional offload processors, Nighthawk X6 soars above the competition so you'll enjoy a blazing-fast WiFi experience using the latest 802.11ac wireless technology, such as the innovative 5G WiFi XStream technology from Broadcom. By optimizing speeds for all your WiFi devices, you'll be able to game on, stream away, and download mega-sized files without network lag from inside and outside your house, garage and yard".
The company touts the following features:
AC3200 WiFi technology enables the fastest combined WiFi speeds currently available -- up to 3.2 Gbps.
Tri-band WiFi intelligently connects devices to the fastest WiFi band possible and increases overall network speed.
6 high-performance external antennas and powerful amplifiers deliver maximum range around your home and yard.
1 GHz dual core processor with three offload processors supports blazing-fast WiFi, wired and USB storage performance.
Beamforming+ improves range reliability by focusing and locking on 2.4 and 5 GHz device signals as you move.
Smart Connect intelligently selects the fastest WiFi for every device which helps your 802.11n and 802.11ac devices choose the appropriate 5GHz band for the best performance.
VPN support ensures secure remote access to your home network.
Five Gigabit Ethernet ports (one WAN and four LAN) offer fast wired connections.
SuperSpeed USB 3.0 port offers high-speed, storage-ready access up to 10 times faster than USB 2.0.
ReadySHARE Vault, a free software application, automatically backs up Windows-based PCs to a USB hard drive connected to Nighthawk X6.
NETGEAR MyMedia enables you to find and play your stored media from anywhere on your network to your DLNA-ready TVs and music system.
iTunes server support enables you to play music on AirPlay-compatible devices using iTunes or Apple Remote.
NETGEAR genie is a personal dashboard that makes it easy to install, monitor, control and repair your home network from PCs, Mac OS X, and iOS and Android smartphones and tablets.
As you can see, the Nighthawk X6 AC3200 is fully loaded with tons of great features, which should make it useful for many years. Of course, with great power comes a great price tag -- $299.99. It will be available starting July 11, but you can pre-order it at Amazon today.
I'm not sure how this router would benefit my setup. Looks like the same processor as the R7000. I currently have 2 MacBook Airs, several iPads/iPhones, etc. None of these support the speeds that the router supports.
I'm surprised they didn't put a faster processor in it.
Maybe I'm missing something for the benefits of this in my particular setup? I'm sure there are plenty of people who can use this.
Eric,
this router is a stop-gap router while the industry gets a true working MU-MIMO.
Right now all wireless specs for performance are based off of 1 radio & 1 client.
Current radios have to service each client 1 at a time. Radio time is like a pie. Every wireless device wants a piece of the pie. The slower the device, the larger the piece it takes to get across x amount of data. This in turn makes every other wireless device wait for its turn to have its piece of the pie.
This is why it is recommended to disable B speeds. B is the slowest & really can make a modern wireless environment seem slow.
This new router has 2 independent 5ghz radios, each with 3 antenna so you can service 2 clients on each 5ghz radio at the same time!
A real world use for this would be a wireless backhaul.
1 5ghz radio could be used to communicate with wireless clients while the 2nd 5ghz radio can service the wireless backhaul to the router.
When true MU-MIMO comes out AND the clients (both must support certain technologies for this to work as its designed) then you can use 1 radio but service multiple clients simultaneously on it. _________________ Router currently owned:
Netgear R7800 - Router
Netgear R7000 - AP mode
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:25 Post subject: Unfortunately, the R8000 doesn't live up to it's advertising
Charlie Demerjian at SemiAccurate.com broke down how disgustingly slimeballish Netgear [Broadcom] has become with their promotions and adverts of the R8000, none of which live up to snuff. I've pasted the highlights, but the article is definitely worth the read:
There are three claims at the top of the release, the first being, “Offers up to 50 percent speed advantage over Multi-User, Multiple-Input, Multiple-Output (MU-MIMO) routers“.
Broadcom is still wrong because Quantenna has 4×4 devices on the market so this is only 50% faster. If it isn’t shipping however, Qualcomm’s MU-MIMO devices will smoke it by offering 50% more than that, 3×3 with 3 streams in MU-MIMO mode for a total of nine concurrent streams.
The second bullet says, “Delivers data rates up to 3.2 Gbps for the highest performance in a home router”.
The math for 802.11ac says that each stream at 80MHz is capable of 433Mbps and 160MHz channels support 867Mbps. 3200/433 is 7.39, 3200/867 is 3.69. The Broadcom chip in this case is a claimed six channel part, not a 7.39 or 3.69 channel device. If you do a little math though, 6×6 gets you to 2.6Gbps and another 3×3 802.11n on the 2.4GHz channel gets you another 600Mbps for a total of 3.2Gbps. This may seem like a leap of logic because adding up all the potential frequencies and modes of a device is about as sleazy as marketing gets, but we can’t get to 3.2Gbps any other way.
Then they go off the rails with marketingspeak, try this “key feature” on for size. “Five core “Penta Core” central processing unit (CPU) made up of two 5GHz radios and one 2.4GHz radio as well as 2.96 GHz processing power to maximize network capacity.”
Since the 470x line has dual core ARM A9s on a 40MHz process and typically run at about 1GHz, that would be 2GHz of processing power right there. The last GHz being spread across the three radios would put them right about where similar devices sit for clocks too. So Broadcom is taking five different CPUs across four chips, adding up the clocks of all the cores, and claiming it as a single clock speed? Again technically correct wording but flat-out intentionally deceptive.
The next “key feature” is that this platform has, “Support for recently released spectrum from the (FCC) through simultaneous multichannel capabilities in 5 GHz band to enable six 802.11ac streams over 160 MHz of bandwidth.”
Wow they do 160MHz channels, no one else does. Actually if you read the text again, Broadcom doesn’t do 160MHz channels, they threw technobabble in with big terms like FCC to make it seem like they do but they specifically do not claim 160MHz channels because they don’t support it. More slime for the bucket.
Then there is this gem for a feature, “Automatic separation of coexisting 802.11n and 802.11ac Wi-Fi devices into distinct frequencies.“
Once again, wow! Err, no wait, 802.11ac is 5GHz only, 802.11n is typically run on 2.4GHz but 5GHz is an optional part of the spec. Then again there are three distinct radios in the Broadcom platform, you would be insane not to run them at different frequencies, most consumer 802.11n devices don’t have 5GHz radios in them. This one is just so dumb I pity the idiot who wrote it and thought it would sound impressive.
In the end Qualcomm and Quantenna announced new silicon with 4×4 and 8×8 streams respectively. Both support 802.11ac Release 2 MU-MIMO and Quantenna also supports the other two optional features. Broadcom doesn’t have a 4×4 device yet but is claiming 6 streams by bundling two discrete 802.11ac 3×3 radios in a box, then counting the aggregate bandwidth. Not to be outdone they throw in the 802.11n radios too, after all a bigger number is just that. Don’t ask the question of how dumb they think we are, they just answered it. None of the radios support 802.11ac Release/Wave 2 features like MU-MIMO or 160MHz channels even though Broadcom desperately tries to make it look that way.
A bummer really, since the R8000 appeared at first glance to be a killer router that I was going to buy in a week when it comes out. I'll wait for the ASUS RT-AC87U [which will have Quantenna 8x8 MU-MIMO) to be released later this year (currently have an R6300).
JW,
thanks for the input.
Did you however believe a marketing department holds to truth?
The purpose of a marketing team is to sell you why their product is the best.
Unfortunately the truth gets lost much of the time when it comes to advertisement & marketing.
This isn't a Netgear only thing. I don't see a need to hammer 1 specific company for its questionable tactics in marketing.
Were all adults & have seen many examples of false advertisement.
How about a hamster driving a car through space with the window down & jamming to the stereo?
Clearly the car cant function in space but there it is on your tv doing just that.
Where is the outrage?
_________________ Router currently owned:
Netgear R7800 - Router
Netgear R7000 - AP mode
The only problem is Fiat doesn't advertise that a hamster can literally drive or that the car can literally drive in space. Netgear [Broadcom] went to an entirely different level... the Adverts industry's purpose is to sell you whatever product they're marketing, and sure many times the truth may be stretched. However, Netgear [Broadcom] didn't just stretch the truth, they stretched it to the point of breaking and claimed features that simply don't exist within the R8000 [as currently advertised].
However, I also understand the point you're making. I don't expect for adverts to be dead on, and it's become customary to not hold advertisers to 100% truthfulness about their product adverts, however there has to be a line you simply don't cross. For me, that line is claiming a product does something that it clearly cannot ever do.
[EDIT: Stretching the truth a bit in adverts is one thing, being completely dishonest is another... even more so when an advert's wording is clearly meant to deceive (as is the case with the R8000).]
Amazon shows the R8000 in stock & for sale here in the U.S.
Anyone going to drop serious coin on it?
$300 US.
I am happy with my R7000 & Kong firmware.
While it may be available for purchase, it won't ship until the 11th, when its RTM.
Anyone who does buy it is wasting their money and buying a product that will be obsolete by the last quarter of the year due to true MU-MIMO being released by ASUS and another manufacturer late this year.
Anyone who's looking at buying this is already tech savvy and looking for top of the line AC speeds, and if they do their research, it becomes apparent extremely quickly it's a waste of money. Those who do buy this are analogous to those individuals who buy Bose products... bedazzled by the marketing, overlooking the actual facts of the product.
Marketing did an amazing [albeit dishonest] job with the adverts for the R8000, however any user using it will discover it doesn't do the speeds advertised and will be sorely disappointed when far more advanced routers with true MU-MIMO [4 & 8] are released late this year.
Amazon shows the R8000 in stock & for sale here in the U.S.
Anyone going to drop serious coin on it?
$300 US.
I am happy with my R7000 & Kong firmware.
While it may be available for purchase, it won't ship until the 11th, when its RTM.
Anyone who does buy it is wasting their money and buying a product that will be obsolete by the last quarter of the year due to true MU-MIMO being released by ASUS and another manufacturer late this year.
Complete bullshit. If you don't have the R7000 yet, then this is the best you can get right now. Although the R7000 will give you almost the same features for a much better price.
MU_MIMO, will have the same stability problems as AC had in the beginning. Thus before MU_MIMO works with a large set of clients it will take at least 1-1,5y. You also need MU-MIMO capable clients to really see an improvement.
While in theory MU-MIMO is great, customers will suffer and have to play beta tester. The broadcom AC radio drivers are getting stable now. So the question is, are you looking for something that is go9ing to work or are you looking for something that looks nice on the paper.
By the way, Netgear markets their R7500 as MU-MIMO ready, that tells everything. Obviously too many problems to release it with MU-MIMO support.
If you do a lot of streaming at home, then the R8000 will help, as you can distribute the traffic among 3 radios. _________________ KONG PB's: http://www.desipro.de/ddwrt/
KONG Info: http://tips.desipro.de/
I agree with Kong.
JW, I don't know why you seem so down on Netgear.
If you don't like the product that's fine but posting mini-rants doesn't look good and honestly few on here are here to read other peoples personal complaints on a product or company.
These forums are for people to share experiences, share tips and tricks & get support from fellow users. _________________ Router currently owned:
Netgear R7800 - Router
Netgear R7000 - AP mode
I hadn't heard of the R7500 until now. I think it is interesting that Netgear is releasing the R8000 with the same CPU clock frequency as the R7000 (not sure if its the same chip or not) yet the R7500 has a dual core 1.4 Ghz.
Has anyone been able to find out if the CPU chips are the same across the R7000, R7500, and the R8000? I know the R7000 can be overclocked to 1.4 Ghz. _________________ R7000 Nighthawk - DD-WRT v3.0-r50308
R7000 Nighthawk - DD-WRT v3.0-r50308
~~~~~~~~~~Dismantled for learning opportunities~~~~~~~~~~
WRT54Gv2
WRT54Gv8.2
~~~~~~~~~~Other Settings~~~~~~~~~
https://nextdns.io/?from=2d3sq39x https://pi-hole.net/ https://github.com/DNSCrypt/dnscrypt-proxy
HB,
I believe (from what I read of each of the 2 new products) that for the r8000; the biggest difference?feature over the r7000 is a 3rd radio.
2 5ghz radios & 1 2.4ghz radio. This should in theory help throughput for 5ghz clients if you have multiple of them sending data at the same time.
1 or a couple can be on 1 radio while 1 or a couple others can be on the 2nd radio & not slowing each other down by having to share the radio bandwidth.
The r7500 is a little different in that it is supposed to be MU-MIMO ready but....
As kong indicated MU-MIMO wont be real world ready for a time. All new technology takes time to make it to market & even longer to get a real presence.
Also, for MU_MIMO to work the client must support it too.
Good tech but probably a couple years out before you start seeing any quality end user devices in any quantity that will implement it.
IMO, if you have the r7000 stick with it. If however your on something older or want more 5ghz freedom then get the now available r8000.
I don't see much benefit in the r7500 yet if you have either of the other 2 routers. _________________ Router currently owned:
Netgear R7800 - Router
Netgear R7000 - AP mode
I agree with Kong.
JW, I don't know why you seem so down on Netgear.
If you don't like the product that's fine but posting mini-rants doesn't look good and honestly few on here are here to read other peoples personal complaints on a product or company.
These forums are for people to share experiences, share tips and tricks & get support from fellow users.
First, I'm not "so down on Netgear". I have an R6300 and love it.
Second, how you can discern I'm making "mini-rants" is a bit baffling, as nothing I've posted is a rant. If you're referring to the long post I did towards the beginning of this post, I copied and pasted (as well as posted the link) specific information from an article written about the R8000. It's interesting to see how people discern posting facts nowadays is the equivalent of rants.
The R8000 is, for all intents and purposes, an R7000 with an extra 5.2Ghz radio. The R8000 offers no performance gains and Netgear chose to market the R8000 in an extremely dishonest manner, using wording solely meant to deceive. Unless you're running smartphones 2011 and earlier (high end) or 2012 and earlier (mid-level), the majority of mobile devices after than have an N wireless radio. Those that do not would be automatically routed to the 2.4Ghz router radio with a few minor tweaks on the router settings page. Home theater devices would apply to the same time line as well.
The R8000, if taken at face value and marketing done by Netgear, appears at first glance to be an amazing router and I was dead set on buying it today when it was RTM, however, if you do a bit of research online, you'll find numerous reviews similar to the one written above by the journalist I linked to.
The R8000 is a $300 router and it's July... within 3 - 5 months, the ASUS RT-AC87U will be available with 8x8 MU-MIMO and a Qualcomm will be released with 4x4 MU-MIMO. If better technology will be available inside 4 months, why waste $300 on the R8000 multiple manufacturers are released more advanced MU-MIMO routers in the same price range?
It's a simple question of economics, and if someone takes the time to thoroughly research the R8000 from objective third party journalists, it becomes very clear this is simply not worth the money when more advanced products will be available within a few months. This would analogous to buying the Note 3 today when the Note 4 will be released in mid-September.
